the evolution thing again

[Masteroftheweb]

Can you PROVE that it's too complex to happen at random? or are you jut making assumptions simply becuase you don't want to beleive it's possible

[Super Goat Weed]

do you have any idea what the odds are for just one aspect of evolution to occur?

impossible. That's what they are. It's like having a bomb go off in a junk yard and having a fully functional car be put togeather, with the ability to reproduce and supply it's own fuel

never gonna happen, never did happen. that arguemnt is nothing more then common sense.

no hostility in this statment mind you, i'm just explaining the argument for Intelligent Design, or Creation if you will.

[Masteroftheweb]

Yeah... you tell them impossible odds... spit out them numbers... you can even tell all those germs that evolve on a daily basis to better infect people... you tell them good...

Also... again... nothing is impossible... that's why I don't say that god isn't real... I don't believe in him... but I don't say he can't exist

Edit:

let me ask you this... what do you think evolution is?

[WildCard]

I really can't state how bad i want to laugh after reading some of this. i know that's not the best way to start this post off but it's the truth. you all debate about stuff like this and that's a good thing sure but come on, have an open mind to all the theories and opinions. one way of thinking isn't the right one, what one of you says may or may not be true to any extent. to each individual it could be right or wrong depending on their view points and beliefs. however to have an intelligent discussion and/or debate about a subject like this you just can't say someone is wrong or that their idea is wrong just because you think your beliefs are right.

there are lots of things in the universe itself that supposedly seem to happen at random from gamma radiation bursts to the formation of stars themselves. for all anyone knows that's all it is, just random occurences in the universe that happen with no interference from a higher being. however, it could also just be that's how a higher being operates and wants to start things simply by random chance and takes a bit of amusement in it, who knows? the answer is simple, nobody does. there are no facts that literally prove one way or the other and for all we know, there never will be.

we were created, we evolve, blah blah blah blah. we simply exist and that's all that should matter. our bodies are literally made of space dust but i could sit here say a shitload of other things but there's really no point cause someone will just say how something is wrong all because their too ignorant or too stubborn to accept someone else has differing beliefs.

[Super Goat Weed]

Yeah... you tell them impossible odds... spit out them numbers... you can even tell all those germs that evolve on a daily basis to better infect people... you tell them good...

Also... again... nothing is impossible... that's why I don't say that god isn't real... I don't believe in him... but I don't say he can't exist

Edit:

let me ask you this... what do you think evolution is?

there are no germs that evolve on a daily basis. What you see are germs that can resequence themselves to hide from T-cells. This process is adaption, not evolution. Like darwin's finches, they are simply using an inate ability of reproduction in order to survive. darwin's finches were the same on both islands, with the exception of their beeks. The difference wasn't that they were not the same animal, it was simply that finches born with one type of beek could not survive, so only the once with the other type did. in the end, the genes were almost non-existant in that particular gene pool from beeing bred out. A cold germ remains a cold germ and always will, as will every other germ that does that. There is no evidence for evolution on that level.

i think evolution IS bullshit.

[Bogey]

Call it "adaptation" if you like, Goat. You just explained what evolution is, basically. Survival of the fittest. If this "adaptation" goes on long enough the environment will change and therefore new species are created over time, one small "adaptation" at a time.

[Masteroftheweb]

well said Joe... I was just going to compliment him on his fine explaination of evolution

[Super Goat Weed]

no

adaption never goes that far, and there's no evidence of it ever doing so. That's the huge difference. A Germ cell will always remain a germ, and a finch will always stay a finch. The genes that make one finch differen't from another didn't randomly appear, they were designed to be there so the finch could spread to multiple islands. You show me evidence of one creature changing into another creature and maybe you'd have an argument, but such evidence dosn't exist. Such simple differences using pre-existing genes cannot possibly explain the existance of all life on earth.

and in response to wildcard, it makes a huge difference where you came from. For just one example, what kind of a difference would it make knowing you were engineered for a specific reason, rather they you are the chance result of a puddle of goo in a pond somewhere? I allow people to have beliefs that are different then mine, but what i hate is that one belief is called 'science' and another is called 'religion' simply because of what they imply. True science evaluates the facts REGUARDLESS of what they imply, and that contradiction is intolerable.

[Masteroftheweb]

You realize that evolution is NOT from species to species, right?

People beleive that it was evolution that made species, but evolution itself does not state this...

Your entire concept on what you're argueing about is flawed... you don't know what it is you're saying doesn't exist...

And the proof it out there, you just don't want to acknowledge it... using evolution like that is about making connection... whales have hip bones, same with snakes... the proof is there.

edit:

a few links for you

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/newton/askas...logy/bio039.htm

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-misconceptions.html

http://science.howstuffworks.com/evolution.htm

[Super Goat Weed]

ok, i think i see what your saying

evolution states that creatures can come from common ancestors, although to what extent is unknown correct?

so if i were to say all dogs came from one original dog, you'd have no problem with that

what i'm arguing is that all life originated from some random occurance. Whatever you want to call this theory, it has been my experience that it is refered to as evolution. That's the debate. Evolution, as these links have stated it, could quite possibly exist, however, once you take it too far (IE - reptiles turned into birds) it dosn't hold water. I have no problem saying it's possible that all dogs came from one dog, all cats came from one cat, but to take it much further makes it impossible

so what's the name for the theory that all living beings came from a big pool of goo?

[Masteroftheweb]

(IE - reptiles turned into birds)

Real creature... look it up, Archaeopteryx.

Edit:

and another I just learned about... I love expanding my knowledge...



Protoavis

[Super Goat Weed]

and now we dive into bullshit again

you have 2 fossils, one of which only 10 exist, and you say, based on 2 fossils (one of which, Protoavis, is considered highly debatable http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protoavis ) is evidence of a process which would take millions upon millions of tiny changes. Once again, the difference is that in the other examples you've given, the DNA for such variations was pre-existant in the species, where as here, the DNA would have to have changed in order to incorporate such vast changes. For the sake of argumen, and the defining of terms, i will refer to evolution as practice (small changes, also called micro evolution, or adaption) as evolution, if you like, and the overly dramatic explnation into this being an explanation for all life ( As Darwin's Origins of the Species would have made it out to be) As Darwinisim.

[mog]

To clarify:

Evolution- Changes in gene frequencies in a population over time.

Adaptation- The ability for an individual to adjust to its surroundings such as enviornment.

Plasticity- The range that an individual characteristic can develop in an organism (e.g. height can be different for an individual based on factors such as health and diet).

[Mik]

Adaptation is usually parrellel to Evolution, extinction usually stems from the unadaptablity to enviroment.


Wooly Mammoth would be a good example, during the iceage it's heavy coat help protect it from the cool, ice age over, kapow gg n00bs, admittedly predation by early man didn't help matters much.

Previous ice age brought along the domination of the mammal, with there fur/hairy body and homo-static nature they pwn all the reptiles and amiphians.

[Masteroftheweb]

Evolution- Changes in gene frequencies in a population over time.

Wrong.

Evolution is the adaptation of a creature to it's environment that ensures it's furthered existance