Diablo 3

Everything from Console, PC & Handheld. This is the place your none On-line Graphic related play things go.
User avatar
Matt
Noble Warrior
Posts: 4543
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:39 pm
Location: England
Contact:

Post by Matt » Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:07 am

Ragnarok is still untouched as the best MMO ever.

And that's coming from me, who hates Japan.
User avatar
Bogey
Not-A-Deserter
Posts: 1147
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2004 11:30 pm

Post by Bogey » Tue Jul 08, 2008 7:02 am

Good thing it's Korean then.
User avatar
Mik
Born under a bad sign
Posts: 3394
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 8:44 am
Location: Beyond your borders
Contact:

Post by Mik » Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:08 am

Comeon Joe, you know they are all the same to him.


I dislike 'I can do anything I want cause the game lets me'-ville that most RPG's these days, I hate, despise and loathe multiclassing, it is the fucking devil.

If you need to add another class to make you character interesting or work then the class pure wasn't good or interesting enough, well done, you fail as a game designer.


Whilst, I cant begrudge people the want to upgrade their character how they prefer to play, I really do question why sometimes they just didn't roll the class they wanted instead of fucking around and making everyone else bend to their will.

Whilst community (guild) dicated Class skilling is something I never approved of (Although, I did enforce it as requested by the community). I can understand the reasoning behind it. Take WoW as an example
Druid - Healer
Shaman - Healer
Priest - Healer
Paladin -Healer

Rogue - DPS
Warlock - DPS
Mage - DPS
Hunter - DPS

Warrior - Tank
is much easier to handle than
Druid - Healer
Shaman - Healer
Priest - Healer
Paladin -Healer

Rogue - DPS
Warlock - DPS
Mage - DPS
Hunter - DPS
Druid - DPS
Shaman - DPS
Priest - DPS
Paladin - DPS
Warrior - DPS

Warrior - Tank
Paladin - Tank
Druid - Tank
It's alot less of an issue these days, oddly now that raiding numbers from 40 to 25 allows more forgiveness with flavour also the viability of each class in the 'off' role
User avatar
kaos
Noble Warrior
Posts: 4089
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 3:09 pm
Location: Atlanta, Ga

Post by kaos » Tue Jul 08, 2008 1:21 pm

Its the whole class system all together that I'm not fond of, which is why I like when they give you the ability to try new things via multi-classing.

however its still a class system.

The class system all together is a very old concept that hasn't changed much at all. I wouldn't mind if it were thrown out completely.

I'd like to see a game (aside from fable) that made things about Study and Training.
That way if you suck at somthing, its totally your fault for your lack of dedication.

If it were up to me..
the whole idea of class would be gone.
race would purely be for aesthetic effect.(because without a class system, race would just become the new class system)
and their would be no such thing as levels.

yeah, I'd even kill Levels.
levels are only there to give you an idea of what kind of strength of ability person is capable of.
so lets just cut out the middle man here, and make it all about the abilities from the start.


Theirs no such thing as a "level 27 warrior"
Instead you have "a guy with really high base str & def stats"

that doesn't sound nice and neat.
but chances are if you're going to partner up with someone you're looking at his stats anyway.

so we'll just make him a nice stat card, through the magic of graphic design.

Theirs no such thing as a "level 50 dungeon"
if you're getting your ass kicked, then get the fuck out... seriously.




maybe the game will suck.
maybe it will be fantastic.
but we'll probably never know, unless I get around to making it.
(so possibly never.)
User avatar
Matt
Noble Warrior
Posts: 4543
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:39 pm
Location: England
Contact:

Post by Matt » Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:17 pm

Matt wrote:And that's coming from me, who hates Japan.
Bogey wrote:Good thing it's Korean then.
It's still anime :(

I'm finding it hard to put what I mean into words about my WOW vs Ragnarok thing.

Basically, the thing I loved about Ragnarok was the flexability of the stats. I could be a swordsman who instead of having a shitload of strength, has a shitload of agility and thus doesn't do as much damage per hit, but does more hits per second. Or, you could go overboard with the dexterity and your hits are more in tune with your attack (for example, an ordinary build may have an attack of 225, but your hits always flounder between 225 and about 150. With a shitload of Dex, your hits are always nearer 225) I also liked that the key to being a wizard, or mage, was to have high dexterity and intelligence, but you didn't have to have them.

From my experiences playing WoW, I was disappointed at the level of flexibility. The only thing I had control over was my weapons, skills and equips. I felt the ability to really fuck with your stats and experiment with various builds was obviously missing and I couldn't enough it.

Plus, the quests were fucking ridiculous and I don't have the time to commit to them.

Everyone should play Overlord.
User avatar
Bogey
Not-A-Deserter
Posts: 1147
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2004 11:30 pm

Post by Bogey » Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:12 pm

Johnny, did you ever look at Star Wars Galaxies? I mean before all the crappy updates they did that changed the entire game. It's not about levels, but developing skills of certain classes, you could master a class or branch into trees of different classes if you wanted. It was a pretty cool concept I'd like to see explored further.
User avatar
kaos
Noble Warrior
Posts: 4089
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 3:09 pm
Location: Atlanta, Ga

Post by kaos » Wed Jul 09, 2008 3:59 am

Didn't get around to it.
actually never saw anywhere to pick it up.

how did they end up changing the game and what brought it on?
User avatar
Mik
Born under a bad sign
Posts: 3394
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 8:44 am
Location: Beyond your borders
Contact:

Post by Mik » Wed Jul 09, 2008 9:37 am

How'd they do it?

Massive patch to rebalance the game, basically rewritting how most the game and the classes works.


Why ?

Poorish sales + Sony Online Enterainment = Drastic action
EchoPark
Vagabond
Posts: 1832
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:30 am
Location: Scotland
Contact:

Post by EchoPark » Wed Jul 09, 2008 10:25 am

Bogey wrote:Johnny, did you ever look at Star Wars Galaxies? I mean before all the crappy updates they did that changed the entire game. It's not about levels, but developing skills of certain classes, you could master a class or branch into trees of different classes if you wanted. It was a pretty cool concept I'd like to see explored further.
U BAD MAN I totally was gonna meantion SWG

It didnt have a lvl thing, i feel they made it more wow like. With the whole lvl thing. I mean u had to guess by lookin at the dudes hp if u had a chance (i think i cant excatly mind) i remember going to Tuskian Fort with my TK and wondering if i could take them, then they brought the CU out and it totally fucked everything. And ppl were starting to get use to it then they rape it again with another CU, i quit then but i went back after a few months and again they raped it with another change called the NGE which basiclly was wow.

What i loved about Galaxies was the who profession tree, Brawler, riflemen, Medic and so on and those classes branch out as well so Brawler had Swordsmen, Pikemen, TK, and some others that way u can make ur class so i was a TK Monk and Master Pikemen. The TK brought me the tanking and Pike brought me the AOE.

But they took that all the way and just brought in 5 or something classes and basiclly Jedi from the start.

The other thing wow suffers (for me that is) is the communty isnt as friendly. I feel i could go to a city and dont have to talk to a single player just go and get what i need and thats it. But in swg u can go to the Catanra (my spelling sucks today) and listen to the music played by the players and watch the dancers who were players get ur fagite down and talk whisles ur were there.

And they had player cities which adds to the social side i felt which again u dont have in wow. Which i would of liked or just a guild inn or something!!!

I always like SWG (precu or even the 1st CU) over wow. But i could only take so much gettin bullshit from SOE so i turned to wow which was the next best thing.

I tried Ragnock ... it just wasnt my type of game after playin SWG then wow it just could of been far better but wasnt.
User avatar
Mik
Born under a bad sign
Posts: 3394
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 8:44 am
Location: Beyond your borders
Contact:

Post by Mik » Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:02 pm

C'ept that with or without the CU or NGE some of the classes plain sucked, where ill thought out or broken and at the least kinda pointless.

Verant Interactive and SoE got lucky with Everquest (which was an abortion of a game on launch) and have yet to repeat the sucess of a game that was buggy, grind happy and despite the name almost entirely devoid of quests.


But really soo much can learned from EQ and those early MMO's why everyone wants to reinvent the wheel (the destruction of the Holy Trinity for the party (Tank, healer, dps), time sinks etc ) is beyond me.
User avatar
kaos
Noble Warrior
Posts: 4089
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 3:09 pm
Location: Atlanta, Ga

Post by kaos » Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:40 pm

I just cant seem to justify the rpg part of any MMORPG, and I think being pigeon holed into roles is part of the reason.

After character creation, the whole experience is gone, never to return.


EDIT: actually guild wars was pretty good about it, but it had trouble in the mmo area.
Last edited by kaos on Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Wulf
Not-A-Deserter
Posts: 988
Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2004 9:15 am
Location: Belgium

Post by Wulf » Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:24 pm

guild wars worth picking up from an RP point of view? :mellow:
User avatar
kaos
Noble Warrior
Posts: 4089
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 3:09 pm
Location: Atlanta, Ga

Post by kaos » Sun Aug 10, 2008 12:03 am

I dunno what most other MMO's do.

but guild wars actually puts your character to use when it tells the story of the game.

and it seems to tell the story of the game often enough.
I believe every time you reach a new area (which is quite often) theirs a cut scene.

The scene will feature npc's with full voiced dialogue as well as your character and the rest of the partys characters interacting with those npcs, or doing something.

I think only the party leader has speaking roles.

Still it offers more in the way of reminding the player that their actually is a storyline behind all of the grind sessions than some of the other games I've played.

You'd think they'd have done something like that with FF11.
Post Reply