false positives?

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kaos
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Post by kaos » Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:52 am

on more than a few occasions I've come across people that like to post up pictures of random black people and associate them with aids an an attempt to make some kind of funny joke.

riiight.

so last week I heard something.
something about the biology of Africans bringing out false positives.
I gather immediately it would be argued that that was a silly notion as "all men are created equal" and all that jazz.

but then I got to thinking about things like Sickle cell, Melanin, and a few other things.

but determining races of people as biologically different just incites loads of controversy...so most people don't go there.

anyway I found a list of things that could potentially trigger a false positive on HIV testing.


* Anti-carbohydrate antibodies (52, 19, 13)
* Naturally-occurring antibodies (5, 19)
* Passive immunization: receipt of gamma globulin or immune globulin (as prophylaxis against infection which contains antibodies)(18, 26, 60, 4, 22, 42, 43, 13)
* Leprosy (2, 25)
* Tuberculosis (25)
* Mycobacterium avium (25)
* Systemic lupus erythematosus (15, 23)
* Renal (kidney) failure (48, 23, 13)
* Hemodialysis/renal failure (56, 16, 41, 10, 49)
* Alpha interferon therapy in hemodialysis patients (54)
* Flu (36)
* Flu vaccination (30, 11, 3, 20, 13, 43)
* Herpes simplex I (27)
* Herpes simplex II (11)
* Upper respiratory tract infection (cold or flu)(11)
* Recent viral infection or exposure to viral vaccines (11)
* Pregnancy in multiparous women (58, 53, 13, 43, 36)
* Malaria (6, 12)
* High levels of circulating immune complexes (6, 33)
* Hypergammaglobulinemia (high levels of antibodies) (40, 33)
* False positives on other tests, including RPR (rapid plasma reagent) test for syphilis (17, 48, 33, 10, 49)
* Rheumatoid arthritis (36)
* Hepatitis B vaccination (28, 21, 40, 43)
* Tetanus vaccination (40)
* Organ transplantation (1, 36)
* Renal transplantation (35, 9, 48, 13, 56)
* Anti-lymphocyte antibodies (56, 31)
* Anti-collagen antibodies (found in gay men, haemophiliacs, Africans of both sexes and people with leprosy)(31)
* Serum-positive for rheumatoid factor, antinuclear antibody (both found in rheumatoid arthritis and other autoantibodies)(14, 62, 53)
* Autoimmune diseases (44, 29, 10, 40, 49, 43): Systemic lupus erythematosus, scleroderma, connective tissue disease, dermatomyositis
* Acute viral infections, DNA viral infections (59, 48, 43, 53, 40, 13)
* Malignant neoplasms (cancers)(40)
* Alcoholic hepatitis/alcoholic liver disease (32, 48, 40,10,13, 49, 43, 53)
* Primary sclerosing cholangitis (48, 53)
* Hepatitis (54)
* "Sticky" blood (in Africans) (38, 34, 40)
* Antibodies with a high affinity for polystyrene (used in the test kits)(62, 40, 3)
* Blood transfusions, multiple blood transfusions (63, 36,13, 49, 43, 41)
* Multiple myeloma (10, 43, 53)
* HLA antibodies (to Class I and II leukocyte antigens)(7, 46, 63, 48, 10, 13, 49, 43, 53)
* Anti-smooth muscle antibody (48)
* Anti-parietal cell antibody (48)
* Anti-hepatitis A IgM (antibody)(48)
* Anti-Hbc IgM (48)
* Administration of human immunoglobulin preparations pooled before 1985 (10)
* Haemophilia (10, 49)
* Haematologic malignant disorders/lymphoma (43, 53, 9, 48, 13)
* Primary biliary cirrhosis (43, 53, 13, 48)
* Stevens-Johnson syndrome9, (48, 13)
* Q-fever with associated hepatitis (61)
* Heat-treated specimens (51, 57, 24, 49, 48)
* Lipemic serum (blood with high levels of fat or lipids)(49)
* Haemolyzed serum (blood where haemoglobin is separated from the red cells)(49)
* Hyperbilirubinemia (10, 13)
* Globulins produced during polyclonal gammopathies (which are seen in AIDS risk groups)(10, 13, 48)
* Healthy individuals as a result of poorly-understood cross-reactions (10)
* Normal human ribonucleoproteins (48,13)
* Other retroviruses (8, 55, 14, 48, 13)
* Anti-mitochondrial antibodies (48, 13)
* Anti-nuclear antibodies (48, 13, 53)
* Anti-microsomal antibodies (34)
* T-cell leukocyte antigen antibodies (48, 13)
* Proteins on the filter paper (13)
* Epstein-Barr virus (37)
* Visceral leishmaniasis (45)
* Receptive anal sex (39, 64)


Needless to say...
the tests are starting to look flimsy as all hell.

could it possibly be that in sub-saharan africa where, health isnt all that great to begin with, and people are being exposed to foreign diseases, that many of the people that came up positive there are actually NOT?

I also heard the testing methods there are even worse.

I'm not saying anything as silly as hiv/aids doesnt exist.
but that maybe we need to re-evaluate it.
I mean hell... the fucking flu, can throw the test off.

I have to wonder now, how many people might have had their lives changed over a false positive.
Last edited by kaos on Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Chewi
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Post by Chewi » Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:09 am

Hmm. That's interesting, I've never heard of that. I'll ask my AIDS charity friend about it.
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Matt
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Post by Matt » Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:52 am

I think if you can enjoy stereotypes of any kind, you should just let this one slide. AIDS is rife in Africa.
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kaos
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Post by kaos » Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:15 am

kaos wrote:I'm not saying anything as silly as hiv/aids doesnt exist.
I just watched a few videos with this guy Peter Duesberg

He makes very convincing arguments.
The more info I gather, the more I'm starting to thinking that in a sense hiv/aids actually doesn't exist.

In my own personal experience. I have a brother who tested positive for hiv a few 3 years ago.

he hasnt been taking the medication.
his reason: "fuck it, if im gonna die anyway with or without the meds...then whats the point?"
He doesn't have AIDS as of yet, he's also as healthy as ever.

I have a cousin... Charlie Brown, taught me to drive a go-cart in the country and how to properly terrorize the chickens with it. If you accidentally hit one....dinner.
anyway... Charlie died of aids maybe 4 years ago, he was in terrible condition in the end. I remember thinking, "why? he took his meds just like he was supposed to."

and now im reading up on AZT.
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Post by Chewi » Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:27 am

It can be as long as 10 years before it starts to take effect. I hope for your brother that you're right though.

What is almost as rife are the stupid myths that surround HIV/AIDS in developing countries. My friend told me that you'd be amazed how many otherwise intelligent people come to believe such silly notions. They wouldn't want an idea like this becoming too widespread because, regardless of whether it's true or not, AIDS is still out there and practising unsafe sex can only make it worse.
Last edited by Chewi on Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by kaos » Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:36 am

thats one of the arguments against actually.

All the other viruses take effect almost immediately. i think 2 weeks was the cut off but the realistic date was like 48 hours or something.
and that ifyou don't get the associated illness within 2 weeks...you're not gonna.

but with hiv virus...
of all the viruses in the world, hiv is somehow special and unique, in that it gets to extend itself well beyond 2 weeks, to 10 years.

so...
if my brother doesnt get aids in 7 years...then he's safe?

EDIT: I agree. the minute everyone is convinced that hiv is harmeless, a shit load of problems would follow. however, suppression of the idea doesn't sound like the right idea. how about education?

would it be such a big deal for us to educationally correct a massive mistake?
surely the fall out would be terrible for a while.
but id rather a weeks worth of riots and risk, than another 25 years of controlled thinking.

and theirs still other things to careful of.
we've villanized hiv/aids to the point of being skeletor.
surely would could make a legitimate enemy out of the other real deseases...
you know the ones that actually have unique symptoms.
Last edited by kaos on Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Chewi » Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:45 am

I know how this sounds but obviously a lot of research has gone into this, probably more than for any other illness, maybe with the exception of cancer. It sounds like what's being seen is quite consistent, despite how odd the waiting time may seem. If HIV wasn't detectable and they were claiming that AIDS strikes up to 10 years after infection with no apparent symptoms during that time, then I'd be a bit dubious.

Quoted from you know where...
In the absence of antiretroviral therapy, the median time of progression from HIV infection to AIDS is nine to ten years, and the median survival time after developing AIDS is only 9.2 months.[31] However, the rate of clinical disease progression varies widely between individuals, from two weeks up to 20 years. Many factors affect the rate of progression. These include factors that influence the body's ability to defend against HIV such as the infected person's general immune function.[32][33] Older people have weaker immune systems, and therefore have a greater risk of rapid disease progression than younger people. Poor access to health care and the existence of coexisting infections such as tuberculosis also may predispose people to faster disease progression.[31][34][35] The infected person's genetic inheritance plays an important role and some people are resistant to certain strains of HIV. An example of this is people with the homozygous CCR5-?32 variation are resistant to infection with certain strains of HIV.[36] HIV is genetically variable and exists as different strains, which cause different rates of clinical disease progression.
Last edited by Chewi on Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Matt » Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:52 pm

Scientists are frighteningly close to solving the AIDS issue, though. I have no source, but they developed drugs that strip the virus of it's outer layer (that protects it from the meds) when you combine that with the medication they give you it does a good job of killing the virus all together.
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Post by Mik » Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:02 pm

Even after AIDS delevops it's not what kills you, the entire thing is just away of taking your immune system the fuck out, after that the common cold could conceivably kill you.

Most hilarous stupid rumor about hiv/aids I've heard is that they believed you could get rid of it by passing it on to someone else.
Last edited by Mik on Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Matt » Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:35 pm

This is why I've always wished upon my worst enemies AIDS and then diarrhea.
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Post by Melana » Tue Jul 29, 2008 5:06 am

i'm on my phone so i don't have time to type a big message. But aids is running strife in alot of countries not only african ones. Papua new guinea, thailand and other countries. Even if you take the allowable failure rate of these tests being ignored andnot re-tested it's not going to contribute that much . You take the medication to allow your tcells the longest possible chance to keep there titres up, trying to prolong life. At least your getting the medication, alot to people don't have access or never will have access to them. Fuck this whole thread has gotten me worked up. If one of you says something like vaccination is a waste of time i will fucking get on a soapbox. And scream
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Post by Mik » Tue Jul 29, 2008 8:19 am

Is there even an aids vaccine ?
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Post by Chewi » Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:48 am

No.
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Post by kaos » Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:08 pm

Youre welcome to take the soap box anytime Les.
dont wait for someone to provoke you.

vaccination I have no issue with.
its the treatment that looks fishy to me.

I've already said why.
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Post by Matt » Tue Jul 29, 2008 2:08 pm

Sounds like superstitious mumbo jumobo, Jonny. Your friend takes the meds and dies and another doesn't and still lives. Each case is always going to be different and millions is spent on research every year to find ways of combating the virus. As mentioned (and was completely fucking ignored) earlier, last I heard there was a breakthrough in treatment and a certain drug was able to strip the virus of a protective membrane and leave it wide open to antibodies and further medication. This was about a year ago and clinical trials were being held.

The medication isn't useless. One of your friends must live in a bubble and the other wasn't careful enough. No offence, just a guess.
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