Time Travel

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kaos
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Post by kaos » Mon Feb 26, 2007 10:49 pm

anybody seen or read the langoliers?
I think the point of that movie was that only the present really existed and you couldnt actually go backward (at least too far back) cuzz their was nothing there.
on of the things that sticks out in memory was how food had no taste.

as a kid I had always thought that time travel didnt exist and the proof being that if it did, sombody would have come back to visit us by now.
but like mik says, anybody claiming that would be thrown in a loony bin.

So traveling forward in time...
I dont have any scientific theories to quote or anything to back me up on it.
but id think of the two, that would be the most viable one.

I read a neat comic in heavy....no. no I didnt....
I read a summery of a short story on wikiped......hmmm, maybe it was actually a comic.

anyway....

these people, astronuats, when sent to a certain coordinate in space would somtimes just vanish.

theyd come back eventually....
somtimes two weeks later, somtimes to years, some only a few hours.

but they all come back the same...
fucked up.
insane or suicidal

I think it was theorized that they were pretty much flung foward in time, or to another planet (which actually could have been earth) and then somehow sent back.

but thats where the story ends...
nobody really knows, cuzz all the pilots that experienced it wernt really all that usefull to get info from. they were either blathering idoits....dead on arrival, or killing theselves off before they could be interrogated. they did however bring back with them a few artifacts that didnt exist on earth...at least present day earth.

Good story.
but their was a flaw I think.
all the equipment usually came back functional.
why was it that nobody thought to put some sort of recording device on board?

so anyway, yeah I think you can travel time forward....
but at what consequence?
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Mik
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Post by Mik » Tue Feb 27, 2007 11:56 am

The Langoliers was a horror film if I remember rightly and they all ended up getting disappeared and the the world started to disappear and it was kinda left witht he last guy holding on for dear life as the world slips away into the darkness, which left you with all kinds of questions, did they time travel or simple slip out of sync with the rest of the world or was one of them just dreaming it and the darkness was him waking up, ending their worlds exsistance.




The subject of timetravel is often used in science fiction work, now before you get on me about that being fiction Jules Verne wrote 'From Earth to the Moon' using a rocket in 1865 which was about 100 years prior to it actually happening.

From the ones I've read, there are a few theories;

1. Time and therefore history is a fixed event, you cannot change anything, you cannot stop the straight line of history, any action you take ultimately causes the action to take place.

For example you travel back in time and try to kill Hilter, so you travel back in time and try to kill his mother before he was born, shouldn't be too hard but you find it impossible to get close enough, all your attempts fail because you didn't kill Hilter's mother so you cannot possibly do it. Or you get Caught by a passerby seeing about to shoot her and you 'omgz her son kills the jews' ranting is considered madness but is the seed by which anti-jew sentiment is started in post WW1 Germany.

2. Time is a ever flowing river and sure you can throw rocks as big as you like but you cannot divert the rivers course.

Same senario you pop hilter's mom with a rifle round whilst she's out picking daisies or whatever and her head explodes like you hit a rotting pumpkin with a sledgehammer, the Jews are saved .. huzzah.
However upon your return to the present, things have changed Hilter didn't lead Germany on a Jew killing frenzy but someone else from a similar background 100 miles away named Lukas Klien carried it out as before, simply the name of the leader changed and a few events just to keep time on course.


3. Time is like the cords of a rope if you cut it at any point the frayed ends can be splayed to show a few hundred different chords or ... maybe a better analogy is like a great Tree, where from the root (begining of time) you can go up the trunk to the branches in which like the name suggests branches at many points with the possiblies. In our case billions of points.

Same again;

You go back in time and send hilter's mom to an early grave, Saluting yourself on a job well done, you saddle up your time pony and are back on your way to the present ... or are you ? now that you changed the course of history or the percieved course of history, you've switched branches, instead of going to the right branch your history goes left.

Upon returning 'home' things have changed in the past only this time more people died, maybe Germany even won the war cause this guy wasn't as retarded come 1941 and decided not to attack Russia or aleast was more prepared for winter warfare. Instead of super happy America rules the world hurray-land your wondering why 'Nazi Supermen help kittens and use them as bullets to kill the infidels' won every award at the Wilhelm's on Sunday.

(this was actually the plot line to some extent of 'The Phildeaphia Experiment 2' where they accidently sent a stealth bomber to 1940's and it landed in Germany and turned the course of the war as the Nazi's nuked the shit out of New York thus ending the resolve of America in the war.
Last edited by Mik on Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Matt
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Post by Matt » Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:53 pm

However, Science fiction aside. Time travel forwards into the future is theoretically possible even if, albeit, not in the traditional Hollywood giant machine with many turning gears and flashy lights method.

What I cannot grasp is the idea of meeting ones self. Fuck paradoxes and anything of the like. According to these physics theories, such things are an impossibility. If I go back to planet A and kill myself before I set off to planet B, that doesn't matter because I'm still here (at planet A prior to setting off) and I could just live the life of my old self with full knowledge of my own death, at my own hand. I'd inadvertently stop myself from going to planet B and thus stop myself from even getting the chance to go back in time. OMG TYME PARADUX. Well? Not really. Paradoxes and such follow rules. Like destiny and fate. Which unlike time, are unproven entities. I'd still be stood infront of my own dead body. Having gone to Planet B and back, just in time to murder myself. Paradox would rely on me stopping my own time travel. But then I'd have never gotten to planet B and back without making the journey and thus never killed myself and thus disproving that I'd even gone back and forth in time. This brings about the idea of a loop, but, unfortunately, free will negates any loop. There'd be nothing stopping me from going home after murdering myself and not time traveling.

I just confused myself.

So in short, I'm saying that you'd expect the me that pulls the trigger to vanish into thin air. But where would I go? Would my energy just disappear? No, we know that energy doesn't just disappear. I'm made of matter, that'd have to go someplace. So the chances of me "just disappearing" are slim to none. Chances are I'd kill myself and be able to live my "old" life.

Buuuuut, that's not the issue I have with the theory. As said before, I'm the only me. if the only me is in space traveling along a wormhole then that's where I am. I can't possibly meet myself unless some shifty cunt clones me while I'm gone.
Last edited by Matt on Tue Feb 27, 2007 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Chewi
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Post by Chewi » Tue Feb 27, 2007 3:13 pm

You're confusing me. The whole meeting yourself thing only applies to travelling backwards and we all seem fairly convinced that that is science-fiction. You cannot possibly meet yourself when only travelling forwards.
Last edited by Chewi on Tue Feb 27, 2007 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Matt
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Post by Matt » Tue Feb 27, 2007 3:21 pm

Tell that to the worlds leading physicists!
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kaos
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Post by kaos » Tue Feb 27, 2007 3:30 pm

back to your ink pen and line example.

if you did manage to travel bacward I dont think meeting yourself would be the problem


the line gets thick as you go bacward...and thicker still if you go forward again.
I dont know what exactly would happen, but it doesnt sound pretty.

its not going to be as clean as rewinding.
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Post by Mik » Tue Feb 27, 2007 3:59 pm

Matt that is a paradox, but it doesn't apply to travelling fowards in time. if you travelled forward you cannot still exsist in normal time since you are not there your travelling forward.


Imagine your on a train, techincally your not moving at all but the train is moving at 80mph, you don't have to run at 80mph to keep up the same speed nor does running from the back of the train to the front mean you travel at 91mph.

Your describing a paradox that is a problem with travelling backwards in time.

you actually create a double self serving loop.

You exist (Year 1) - You travel back in time (Year 2)
You exist (Year 1) and are killed by the future you - You cannot travel back in time (Year2)
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Post by Matt » Tue Feb 27, 2007 4:21 pm

I assumed the discussion was about time paradoxes and I'm basically saying they don't exist.

You go from A to B then back to A again. You get to B and decide you're going to off yourself at A before you set off, for kicks. You get back and off your earlier self. You'd expect the universe to open it's arsehole and swallow everything or for your presence in time to end. I'm saying that just wouldn't happen. Even IF we could traverse backwards in time.
Last edited by Matt on Tue Feb 27, 2007 4:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Mik
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Post by Mik » Wed Feb 28, 2007 9:12 am

well we assume it's not possible, because it's a paradox but really there's no way to know until we try it out.

It's why I don't really like Physics as science because everything else is mostly about observation and then theory, there are somethings that you can do this with in physics the rest is pure theory because you simple can't observe this stuff so it's mostly guess work.


Time isn't even really something you can traverse, like the run off into space and look back thing, it's not really time travel. Because on earth it's still + however many years you travelled. you also have no way to relay the information either because you would have to travel faster than light (currently highly theorically possible) observe and then travel faster than light again, by the time you come back x number of months will have still passed on earth.
Last edited by Mik on Wed Feb 28, 2007 9:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Chewi » Wed Feb 28, 2007 12:53 pm

I agree, the term time travel is misleading. I think a more accurate way of describing it is your body and mind slowing down. You would also be travelling really fast at the time in order to make it happen. It doesn't have to be faster than the speed of light though, it just has be to be fucking fast. It can also happen through some gravitional weirdness but I'm too tired to think about that right now.
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Post by Mik » Wed Feb 28, 2007 3:06 pm

Well you do if you want to be able to see the earth in the past.

by that I mean any time previously before you started your journey.
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kaos
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Post by kaos » Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:45 pm

its not exactly time travel i dont think....

but maybe it still applies in some way.

Click here to view the YouTube video. Click here again to hide it.


here's another just for kicks..

Click here to view the YouTube video. Click here again to hide it.



So hey, If your moving normally at speeds faster than anyone else, does that really count?

Its a question that was recently brought up in X-men just recently where the character Quick Silver, is now apparently moving so fucking fast, that time supposedly cant keep up...or somthing like that. I forget how they explain it
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Post by Bogey » Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:53 pm

kaos wrote:Its a question that was recently brought up in X-men just recently where the character Quick Silver, is now apparently moving so fucking fast, that time supposedly cant keep up...or somthing like that. I forget how they explain it
Without the "fucking" part I bet.
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Post by Masteroftheweb » Thu Mar 01, 2007 12:17 am

It is of my opinion that time does not exist as anything more than a concept, and thus nothing tangably exists too be traveled.

And thus, Time Travel is not possible
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Post by Super Goat Weed » Thu Mar 01, 2007 1:15 am

it's also been argued that some creatures experience time at different speeds then others. Houseflies, for example, may actually be observing the world at a slower speed then we do, which explains how they are able to process things at the speed at which they move.

All theory mind you, and since flies lack the intelligence to do anything more then fly, eat, and crap, we're not likely to find out the truth
Last edited by Super Goat Weed on Thu Mar 01, 2007 1:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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