Religion is shit!
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Super Goat Weed
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you might as well be his kid, the way you avoided everything i said and made sarcastic comments to cover up the fact that you had nothing was exactly what he would have done.
I should have seen this for what it was, and attempt by Matt to make stabbs at me and those who believe as i do. If you guys were actually looking for a debate and not an excuse for character assasination, that's exactly what we'd have here. You really don't need much practice to be like him Matt, in fact, you're doing a fine job of it.
I should have seen this for what it was, and attempt by Matt to make stabbs at me and those who believe as i do. If you guys were actually looking for a debate and not an excuse for character assasination, that's exactly what we'd have here. You really don't need much practice to be like him Matt, in fact, you're doing a fine job of it.
I didn't even read your post Ben 
I just surmised it was going to be defending your belief in god and besmirching The Great Richard Dawkins. Well, to be fair I did read the first paragraph about how he apparently turns shit around or avoids the questions. Then I assumed the rest was some silly Christian idiom debunking him in every way ending with a small prayer thanking god for giving you the strength to live this day and for the meal you just ate also that beer you just drank.
Richard is a hell of a lot smarter than me and you. And as for this supposed character assassination on my part. I wrote just over a line stating that you are arrogant (which, come on, you are) and religious (you're not?). Then stated that your essay defending your faith was not surprising to me. If you call that character assassination from me. I'd hate to see your response if I actually did try to denigrate you for being a Christian. My comment was about as sarcastic and dangerous as my neighbours dog leaving a log in my front garden.
The rest of my post was about The Man Himself.
....but seeing as you want debate, let's go debatin'!
In the second video I posted. He meets with the Headmaster of a Christian school in London. On Richards visit, Richard basically comes across a science lesson in progress. He finds, in a science book, the story of Noah's Ark and the Christian creationism theory. Richard remarks "what has that got to do with Science?" and the headmaster gives him the typical leap-frog-over-the-facts response about God and how he doesn't really believe what is in the book (and Richard being as great and restrained as he is, does refrain from saying "why the fuck are you teaching it then?") and goes on to say that God is fucking awesome and if he wanted to do it in 7 days, he could. Just didn't. For the lulz, I suppose. Richard then says "Ok, moving on" I can only grasp this change of subject as Richard, modestly, saying "ok, this guy isn't actually going to give me a logical answer on this" and quietly moving on with his interview. They then begin to talk about morals. Mr Headmaster says that if there wasn't a code written down, to be followed, by punishment in hell, then people would be unruly. Richard picks up on this for the utter bollocks it is an says "you've just said a very revealing thing, there. Do you mean to tell me that you believe people only behave because they're scared of God?" and of course the Headmaster realises what a retard he's just been and comments on criminals.
My question is this: This school is a Christian school and it can be gathered that the parents of these children sent their children here specifically to be tutored like this. What right do parents have infecting the minds of the youth like this by indoctrinating them in their religion. Should it not be left up to the child to decide for his/herself when they are actually old enough to branch away and learn on their own?
I just surmised it was going to be defending your belief in god and besmirching The Great Richard Dawkins. Well, to be fair I did read the first paragraph about how he apparently turns shit around or avoids the questions. Then I assumed the rest was some silly Christian idiom debunking him in every way ending with a small prayer thanking god for giving you the strength to live this day and for the meal you just ate also that beer you just drank.
Richard is a hell of a lot smarter than me and you. And as for this supposed character assassination on my part. I wrote just over a line stating that you are arrogant (which, come on, you are) and religious (you're not?). Then stated that your essay defending your faith was not surprising to me. If you call that character assassination from me. I'd hate to see your response if I actually did try to denigrate you for being a Christian. My comment was about as sarcastic and dangerous as my neighbours dog leaving a log in my front garden.
The rest of my post was about The Man Himself.
....but seeing as you want debate, let's go debatin'!
In the second video I posted. He meets with the Headmaster of a Christian school in London. On Richards visit, Richard basically comes across a science lesson in progress. He finds, in a science book, the story of Noah's Ark and the Christian creationism theory. Richard remarks "what has that got to do with Science?" and the headmaster gives him the typical leap-frog-over-the-facts response about God and how he doesn't really believe what is in the book (and Richard being as great and restrained as he is, does refrain from saying "why the fuck are you teaching it then?") and goes on to say that God is fucking awesome and if he wanted to do it in 7 days, he could. Just didn't. For the lulz, I suppose. Richard then says "Ok, moving on" I can only grasp this change of subject as Richard, modestly, saying "ok, this guy isn't actually going to give me a logical answer on this" and quietly moving on with his interview. They then begin to talk about morals. Mr Headmaster says that if there wasn't a code written down, to be followed, by punishment in hell, then people would be unruly. Richard picks up on this for the utter bollocks it is an says "you've just said a very revealing thing, there. Do you mean to tell me that you believe people only behave because they're scared of God?" and of course the Headmaster realises what a retard he's just been and comments on criminals.
My question is this: This school is a Christian school and it can be gathered that the parents of these children sent their children here specifically to be tutored like this. What right do parents have infecting the minds of the youth like this by indoctrinating them in their religion. Should it not be left up to the child to decide for his/herself when they are actually old enough to branch away and learn on their own?
Last edited by Matt on Thu Nov 30, 2006 4:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Super Goat Weed
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right, because we somehow hijacked their free will and forced them to believe. No wonder nobody Ever drops the christian faith. Ever.
(note, that was sarcasim)
Guess what, when the child is old enough, he or she will decide, and nothing anybody can do will stop that. No school that hopes to send a child on to college could hope to educate a child with only one view. These days, evolutionary theory or origins is forced down everybody's throat with even more ferocity then you accuse Christians of doing. Watch Dawkins again, if you don't believe what he believes, he clearly thinks you are, and will call you, a moron. I'm sure there's some Christians that will do that, but i've honestly not met one. Not even at *gasp* Liberty University!
I'd have to watch the clips, i'm downloading them now, but i'm sure i'll have more to say about them.
One of the things he went on about, which frankly shocked me because i can't believe he would be so ignorant, is that he said Christians or Jews were called to immitate the laws of the old testament. I've never heard that. In fact, for the most part, i've heard the opposite. God being the only person allowed to judge. We Christians are called to immitate Jesus, and Jews are called to follow the law. Nobody was called to immitate Yahweh.
(note, that was sarcasim)
Guess what, when the child is old enough, he or she will decide, and nothing anybody can do will stop that. No school that hopes to send a child on to college could hope to educate a child with only one view. These days, evolutionary theory or origins is forced down everybody's throat with even more ferocity then you accuse Christians of doing. Watch Dawkins again, if you don't believe what he believes, he clearly thinks you are, and will call you, a moron. I'm sure there's some Christians that will do that, but i've honestly not met one. Not even at *gasp* Liberty University!
I'd have to watch the clips, i'm downloading them now, but i'm sure i'll have more to say about them.
One of the things he went on about, which frankly shocked me because i can't believe he would be so ignorant, is that he said Christians or Jews were called to immitate the laws of the old testament. I've never heard that. In fact, for the most part, i've heard the opposite. God being the only person allowed to judge. We Christians are called to immitate Jesus, and Jews are called to follow the law. Nobody was called to immitate Yahweh.
Last edited by Super Goat Weed on Thu Nov 30, 2006 4:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
You mean to say that putting children in a school where they confuse myth with scientific fact isn't ramming their faith down their necks? How in Gaza, there are schools for Jews and schools for Muslims. Each school indoctrinating each and every child, is not wrong in the slightest? It's not dangerous? It doesn't breed hate or miss-education?
You are right in some ways. You are wrong in others. Some children have the freedom to think for themselves. Some don't. It is a very sad fact, really. Watch those videos and have some compassion. Feel sorry for those small children stood in huge crowds of Christians ranting shit (shit in my opinion yes, but unfortunately, those children might just believe it, and that is the problem) ?
I think he was getting at just this. Jews, specifically those despicable Israelis, charge themselves with the duty of killing Arabs over their holy land. Christians, charge themselves with killing abortionist doctors, in the name of God. Arabs, some Arabs, charge themselves with killing everyone who does not convert to Islam.
Religion is dangerous.
Another thing about religion is. Look how we scoff at Ra the sun God. Silly ancient Egyptians. And how we find stories of Minotaur's and the Gods of Olympus to be ancient mythology. One day, people will look back on Jesus, Allah and Yahweh/Jehovah and teach about this, our ancient mythology. The people thousands of years ago actually believed it and fought to the death over it. They were fucking DAMN sure it was right, correct and infallible. Sound familiar? Fighting to the death? Arrogance? Destruction?
You are right in some ways. You are wrong in others. Some children have the freedom to think for themselves. Some don't. It is a very sad fact, really. Watch those videos and have some compassion. Feel sorry for those small children stood in huge crowds of Christians ranting shit (shit in my opinion yes, but unfortunately, those children might just believe it, and that is the problem) ?
I think he was getting at just this. Jews, specifically those despicable Israelis, charge themselves with the duty of killing Arabs over their holy land. Christians, charge themselves with killing abortionist doctors, in the name of God. Arabs, some Arabs, charge themselves with killing everyone who does not convert to Islam.
Religion is dangerous.
Another thing about religion is. Look how we scoff at Ra the sun God. Silly ancient Egyptians. And how we find stories of Minotaur's and the Gods of Olympus to be ancient mythology. One day, people will look back on Jesus, Allah and Yahweh/Jehovah and teach about this, our ancient mythology. The people thousands of years ago actually believed it and fought to the death over it. They were fucking DAMN sure it was right, correct and infallible. Sound familiar? Fighting to the death? Arrogance? Destruction?
Last edited by Matt on Thu Nov 30, 2006 5:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Super Goat Weed
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you really do learn quickly. Hell i wouldn't be suprised if this guy you're drooling over wanting to be like would do the same trick you just tried.
What you just did was take one argument, one that was easy for me to debunk, then quickly slip another one in with it, like a magician doing a slight of hand card trick. Nice try, but i caught you.
You start off talking about a school he visited where they were talking about Noah's Ark in science class, then suddenly you're talking about radical Muslems brainwashing children. Apples and oranges of course. Teaching about Noha's Ark hardly breeds hate or mis-education.
Caught your second trick too
that supposed web site you mentioned simply does not exist. I couldn't find it, or any other articles that even mentioned it, even though i'm sure something like that would be HUGE news. So i figured i'd take a better look at the source, and what did I find?
http://www.mondotimes.com/2/topics/5/society/89/7287
now check this out, this publication is owned by NOW, that's the company that tried to sue a bunch of pro-life organizations in the 80's. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scheidler_v._...ation_for_Women
Biiiig shocker. Hardly a reliable source of information. Especially information that can't be validated. I'm not saying it didn't happen, but not only is it amazingly old news (1999, if it happened at all) But it's a definate fringe element. Read on for an explanation of what i mean.
Moving on, Obviously you don't realize you're talking about organizations that are Christian in name only. As a literalist, i can tell you there's nothing in the Bible that excuses behavior like the kind you're talking about, brainwashing children to kill. I've never seen Christ encourage anything even remotly do that, in fact, when Peter took up a sword and attacked a guard to defend Jesus himself, he was told to put that thing away and Christ healed the guard. Not everything in the car is a garage my friend, and not everything that goes by the name of Christian is.
Anyway, clearly you feel that to indoctrinate athiesim, and your hatred of all other religions in children is just fine, but for me to even mention the Bible in school is a crime against humanity. You declare a war of a different kind, a jihad of name calling, insult flinging, and arrogant posturing before the idea that god might not exist, a campaign to wipe all other beliefs out of existance with your tongue as a sword, and where logic fails, the droning of your insect like followers will drown out any voice of reason that dares oppose you. I fear that type of ideology FAR more then a few children learning stories that, when they come of age, they may or may not choose to believe.
What you just did was take one argument, one that was easy for me to debunk, then quickly slip another one in with it, like a magician doing a slight of hand card trick. Nice try, but i caught you.
You start off talking about a school he visited where they were talking about Noah's Ark in science class, then suddenly you're talking about radical Muslems brainwashing children. Apples and oranges of course. Teaching about Noha's Ark hardly breeds hate or mis-education.
Caught your second trick too
that supposed web site you mentioned simply does not exist. I couldn't find it, or any other articles that even mentioned it, even though i'm sure something like that would be HUGE news. So i figured i'd take a better look at the source, and what did I find?
http://www.mondotimes.com/2/topics/5/society/89/7287
now check this out, this publication is owned by NOW, that's the company that tried to sue a bunch of pro-life organizations in the 80's. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scheidler_v._...ation_for_Women
Biiiig shocker. Hardly a reliable source of information. Especially information that can't be validated. I'm not saying it didn't happen, but not only is it amazingly old news (1999, if it happened at all) But it's a definate fringe element. Read on for an explanation of what i mean.
Moving on, Obviously you don't realize you're talking about organizations that are Christian in name only. As a literalist, i can tell you there's nothing in the Bible that excuses behavior like the kind you're talking about, brainwashing children to kill. I've never seen Christ encourage anything even remotly do that, in fact, when Peter took up a sword and attacked a guard to defend Jesus himself, he was told to put that thing away and Christ healed the guard. Not everything in the car is a garage my friend, and not everything that goes by the name of Christian is.
Anyway, clearly you feel that to indoctrinate athiesim, and your hatred of all other religions in children is just fine, but for me to even mention the Bible in school is a crime against humanity. You declare a war of a different kind, a jihad of name calling, insult flinging, and arrogant posturing before the idea that god might not exist, a campaign to wipe all other beliefs out of existance with your tongue as a sword, and where logic fails, the droning of your insect like followers will drown out any voice of reason that dares oppose you. I fear that type of ideology FAR more then a few children learning stories that, when they come of age, they may or may not choose to believe.
Last edited by Super Goat Weed on Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
Oh no. Debunk time.
When you watch the videos I've posted you'll understand why I mentioned the Gaza schools. I was trying not to make it seem like I'm purely bashing Christians with my opening paragraph whilst also addressing your defence of the mindless indoctrination I mentioned that goes on in schools.
As for my "second trick" I googled - and I shall show you the page with the results - "abortionist doctor murdered" - and picked the first one that mentioned doctors being killed by sadomasochistic extremist Christians. I never really checked up on that site. I didn't care, to be honest. I just wanted to make the point that Christians do kill in the name of God.
Nice try, but your interpretation of my post was wrong.
As a proud believer and patron of literalism, you should know the entire first testament is about murder, racism and sexism. God makes it clear you should, with your own hand, kill anyone who tries to convert you into another religion. Brush that under the mat why don't you? When Peter took up the sword blah blah you sound like a rambling Rabbi. That's a very nice story with a pleasant ending which has a great moral to it (see: parable/fable) A lot of the Christianity I've come across goes this way. That's a good thing. Most of Christianity instils good morals (and some retarded ones)
If we're to talk isms. I'm gong to go towards realism and point out that the Bible is about child abuse, polygamy, dysfunctional familial deceit, jealousy, revenge, ethnic cleansing, racial chauvinism. All described without any hint of moral repugnance. God goes from a psychopathic Patrick Bateman-esque divinity to suddenly being a benevolent absent father figure. It is doubtful at best that such a violent father figure with so many deep personality flaws would ever raise an upstanding, caring and socially well adjusted son. The Bible is a contradictory piece of shit. Yet, Christians would refute this claim and say that the Bible is the word of God and entirely fact, but, should not be taken literal. Let's look, shall we?
For instance, in the Bible Jesus teaches brotherly love. In fact, Jesus was quite close to his disciples, especially Judas who was always kissing Jesus on the cheek. Now, love between two men is a great thing, but not in a literal sense, because that is called homosexuality and homosexuality is total gay. As the bible makes quite clear all homosexuals are evil people and should be covered in oil and burned to death.
Here's another example, in the Bible it says that Women who wear two different types of fabric are whore and whores should be immediately pelted with rocks until they are dead. Now it is okay to stone non-pure women to death; however, if you do decide to do so, make damn sure that you're only doing it in a figurative sense. As the Bible clearly states `thou shall not kill.'
As a final example, in the Bible God states that the world `is a two thousand year old stationary dick located at the centre of the universe, on the border on which sea-monster patrol.' Now this statement is true; just not in its literal interpretation. If you read between the lines it becomes quite obvious that what God meant to say is that `the world is in fact, a five billion year old basketball shaped rock that, due to a gravitation pull, rotates in a yearly cycle around the sun. There is no centre of the universe. There are no sea-monsters.'
You should be able to pick out that the Bible is clearly contradicting itself. Clearly.
Now, your last statement.
In this thread. I've discussed in length with you matters of Christianity.
While we're still going to have to put up with religion in everyday life. We should be taught about it in schools. However, can we keep the facts purely to the facts? Like fire burns, ice is cold and water is wet?
I see myself as enlightened. I know God does not exist. Hell, I refuse to call myself an atheist because doing so gives nut jobs far too much credit.
I fear travel to the middle east because I don't want beheading for not having a beard and Islamic trinkets around my neck. Sad, but true. I fear travelling to the more neurotic states in America for fear I'd be shot fucking dead for announcing my disbelief in God.
Perhaps we're at stalemate.
"doing a Richard Dawkins" and avoiding what you said.
The issue was Children being taught, in a fucking science lesson, that Noah was fact. That he got billions of species of the animal kingdom all on one fucking boat, held them together for 7 months and landed, coincidently, on Arab mountains not far from Jew-dom. That is the problem.
There you go. One essay, I tried not to miss a single point.
When you watch the videos I've posted you'll understand why I mentioned the Gaza schools. I was trying not to make it seem like I'm purely bashing Christians with my opening paragraph whilst also addressing your defence of the mindless indoctrination I mentioned that goes on in schools.
As for my "second trick" I googled - and I shall show you the page with the results - "abortionist doctor murdered" - and picked the first one that mentioned doctors being killed by sadomasochistic extremist Christians. I never really checked up on that site. I didn't care, to be honest. I just wanted to make the point that Christians do kill in the name of God.
Nice try, but your interpretation of my post was wrong.
As a proud believer and patron of literalism, you should know the entire first testament is about murder, racism and sexism. God makes it clear you should, with your own hand, kill anyone who tries to convert you into another religion. Brush that under the mat why don't you? When Peter took up the sword blah blah you sound like a rambling Rabbi. That's a very nice story with a pleasant ending which has a great moral to it (see: parable/fable) A lot of the Christianity I've come across goes this way. That's a good thing. Most of Christianity instils good morals (and some retarded ones)
If we're to talk isms. I'm gong to go towards realism and point out that the Bible is about child abuse, polygamy, dysfunctional familial deceit, jealousy, revenge, ethnic cleansing, racial chauvinism. All described without any hint of moral repugnance. God goes from a psychopathic Patrick Bateman-esque divinity to suddenly being a benevolent absent father figure. It is doubtful at best that such a violent father figure with so many deep personality flaws would ever raise an upstanding, caring and socially well adjusted son. The Bible is a contradictory piece of shit. Yet, Christians would refute this claim and say that the Bible is the word of God and entirely fact, but, should not be taken literal. Let's look, shall we?
For instance, in the Bible Jesus teaches brotherly love. In fact, Jesus was quite close to his disciples, especially Judas who was always kissing Jesus on the cheek. Now, love between two men is a great thing, but not in a literal sense, because that is called homosexuality and homosexuality is total gay. As the bible makes quite clear all homosexuals are evil people and should be covered in oil and burned to death.
Here's another example, in the Bible it says that Women who wear two different types of fabric are whore and whores should be immediately pelted with rocks until they are dead. Now it is okay to stone non-pure women to death; however, if you do decide to do so, make damn sure that you're only doing it in a figurative sense. As the Bible clearly states `thou shall not kill.'
As a final example, in the Bible God states that the world `is a two thousand year old stationary dick located at the centre of the universe, on the border on which sea-monster patrol.' Now this statement is true; just not in its literal interpretation. If you read between the lines it becomes quite obvious that what God meant to say is that `the world is in fact, a five billion year old basketball shaped rock that, due to a gravitation pull, rotates in a yearly cycle around the sun. There is no centre of the universe. There are no sea-monsters.'
You should be able to pick out that the Bible is clearly contradicting itself. Clearly.
Now, your last statement.
I most certainly do not. I have a very good (female kind of "good") friend who is Muslim. I do not push my belief, or lack there-of, onto her. She knows I do not believe in God. I know she follows the teachings of Mohammed.Anyway, clearly you feel that to indoctrinate athiesim
In this thread. I've discussed in length with you matters of Christianity.
I never hinted on this for a second. I stated my disgust that The Bible and Noah's Ark should be confused with Science. We have R.E. (Religious Education) for that. I took R.E. I enjoyed it. I was taught about religion by a religious woman (a Christian) who also, without bias, taught us about Islam, Sikhism and Buddhism., and your hatred of all other religions in children is just fine, but for me to even mention the Bible in school is a crime against humanity.
While we're still going to have to put up with religion in everyday life. We should be taught about it in schools. However, can we keep the facts purely to the facts? Like fire burns, ice is cold and water is wet?
It's a little more than thatYou declare a war of a different kind, a jihad of name calling, insult flinging, and arrogant posturing before the idea that god might not exist,
I see myself as enlightened. I know God does not exist. Hell, I refuse to call myself an atheist because doing so gives nut jobs far too much credit. It would be nice to relegate them back to mythology.a campaign to wipe all other beliefs out of existence
The pen is mightier than the sword, you know! If he who lives by the sword, dies by the sword holds true. Jesus certainly met a fitting end, eh? He was nailed to a piece of wood!with your tongue as a sword,
That's just the problem, though. I'm the one using my head and my logic. When my logic fails and God comes to Earth and presents himself an says "yo, fuckers. I'm real" I'll be one of the first to repent and suck Jesus' dick...and where logic fails
So is this actually aimed at me and my own personal view or have you done a very dangerous, gross overestimation and generalised me with every other "atheist"?, the droning of your insect like followers
There is a huge problem with this statement. You offer yourself as a reason voice. Furthermore, you offer Christianity as a reasonable voice. A voice that explains life. What a crock of shit. DNA, stem cells and good old bukkake mixture are the order of life. Not Jesus.will drown out any voice of reason that dares oppose you.
Why? Why do you fear the very concept of truth, fact, reason and experimentation? Why embrace something which, you will never prove, you'll never know more of and that which leads to countless deaths world wide?I fear that type of ideology
I fear travel to the middle east because I don't want beheading for not having a beard and Islamic trinkets around my neck. Sad, but true. I fear travelling to the more neurotic states in America for fear I'd be shot fucking dead for announcing my disbelief in God.
Perhaps we're at stalemate.
Well, that wasn't my point. I'll repeat it just so this response has substance and I've addressed almost your entire post (where I've left your response to my link, the one about the doctor murdering. Simply because it actually had nothing to do with my point so talking about it was useless to my case) thus I cannot be wrongly accused ofFAR more then a few children learning stories that, when they come of age, they may or may not choose to believe.
"doing a Richard Dawkins" and avoiding what you said.
The issue was Children being taught, in a fucking science lesson, that Noah was fact. That he got billions of species of the animal kingdom all on one fucking boat, held them together for 7 months and landed, coincidently, on Arab mountains not far from Jew-dom. That is the problem.
There you go. One essay, I tried not to miss a single point.
Last edited by Matt on Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Super Goat Weed
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debunk time indeed:
dude, that article you quoted makes no mention of that imaginary website WOW cooked up, your second trick my just be bit of poor research on your part, but i still don't see anything that says that website 'hit list' was real. My point still remains unturned, Jesus never used violence against non-believers. EVER. prove me wrong.
As for the old testament, *sigh* here we go again, read my past posts. I LOATHE having to quote myself over and over again, i really hope this isn't going to turn into another one of those kinds of debates...
The 'thou shalt not kill' bit it taken horribly out of context. The entire old testament, if you've bothered to read it, which i doubt, is LOADED with law, all of it varrying to different degrees. The 10 commanments were never meant as universal principles for government, but meant to govern the everyday interactions between people. If you notice, nothing in the list is on a global scale, it's all very one on one, this is intentional, and quite obvious for anybody willing to take the time to look at it.
Yes, it's true, prostitution was punishable by death. So were many things, but prostitutes themselves are agents of death, especially back then, passing diseases around the country, causing plagues and death. While i'm glad that's not the case today, and would hardly encourage the re-instating of such a law, it's understandable at least.
As for that last article you brought up, i'd love to see some references. I know of nowhere that justifies a heliocentric universe, although the catholic church did propogate such belief for some reason, but other then that, i have no idea where you are coming from. I've never seen anything to indicate the world is 'phallus shaped,' or that it's 2,000 years old. Most biblical scholars estimate it at 7-10 thousand, with very good explanations as to why it would appear otherwise. As for sea mosnters, what on earth do you think they would have called dinosaurs had they seen them? and if you doubt they have, i could point you to some very good descriptions of them in the bible, which, at the very least, sound a lot like skeletal remains we've discoverd and named since then.
As for your last torrent of... man i don't know what that was. Pent up rage of some kind? I don't know what has gotten you so set off against Christianity, but you really need to get that worked out. If i weren't able to maintain my cool, this debate could easily disintigrate. I will, however, address a few points you mentioned: First, I see no problem of mentioning religion in the science class as long as science is what's being discussed. I still haven't watched the video as it just finished downloading and i'm going to bed soon, but unless it's some very strange extention of a bible lesson, there's nothing wrong. They could be asking for scientific evidence for the noah's ark story, for example, which i doubt since their professor is not a literalist. Another thing i will mention, is that the problem you keep running into is that you're trying to explain the supernatural by natural means. Noah's ark is a perfect example of this. Modern models of the craft have proven to be remarkably seaworthy. There are ocean floor fossils on mountain tops all over the world, and easly enough water on the planet to completely submerge it (science) but how to fit all those animals inside? and what about dinosaurs? insects? etc. Theories abound. Lizards, like dinosaurs for example, start life very VERY small, and grow to the limits of their environment. The animals could be in hibernation. The insects could easily have been preserved on the ground in sealed 'pockets' or flew, or a thousand of other possibilities. Perhaps dinosaurs weren't preserved at all and this was their method of extinction. This is clearly supernatural. It may not be able to be explained by science just yet, or maybe ever, but that dosn't make it impossible.
You seem to have taken that last section of mine as rather personal. What i had in mind when i wrote it (although you can't be held accountable for that, and i'm not doing so, just offering an explanation) Was the Q & A i saw with Dawkins. He's a master of croud pleasing, and he used it every time he didn't have an out. That's what scared me. That's what i was talking about. Towards the end he had generated an almost mob mentality going. It's genius really, it carried over even to those that watched the video. He's managed to be charming, enraging, and militant all at the same time. I say that makes him brilliant, but it's also scarry. It puts him in the same class of brilliance as Hitler. Able to manipulate huge groups of people against a minority. I doubt he would advocate for the kind of violance Hitler did, but the kind of intolerance and bigotry he advocates is, in some ways, just as scary.
dude, that article you quoted makes no mention of that imaginary website WOW cooked up, your second trick my just be bit of poor research on your part, but i still don't see anything that says that website 'hit list' was real. My point still remains unturned, Jesus never used violence against non-believers. EVER. prove me wrong.
As for the old testament, *sigh* here we go again, read my past posts. I LOATHE having to quote myself over and over again, i really hope this isn't going to turn into another one of those kinds of debates...
now for the debunk:One of the things he went on about, which frankly shocked me because i can't believe he would be so ignorant, is that he said Christians or Jews were called to immitate the laws of the old testament. I've never heard that. In fact, for the most part, i've heard the opposite. God being the only person allowed to judge. We Christians are called to immitate Jesus, and Jews are called to follow the law. Nobody was called to immitate Yahweh.
that may be the dumbest argument i've ever heard. That's a cultural thing. Arabs kiss eachother on the cheek to this day as a sign of close friendship and nothing more. I kiss my father, and my grandfather on the cheek because that's what Italians do. The french do it too. It's hardly homosexual.For instance, in the Bible Jesus teaches brotherly love. In fact, Jesus was quite close to his disciples, especially Judas who was always kissing Jesus on the cheek. Now, love between two men is a great thing, but not in a literal sense, because that is called homosexuality and homosexuality is total gay. As the bible makes quite clear all homosexuals are evil people and should be covered in oil and burned to death.
First of all, stoning was remarkably humane. People have this idea, and modern arabs have twisted it, that you threw rocks at someone untill they died. Small, baseball sized rocks. In practice, they were ritually crushed by large rocks, which ensured the quickest death possible at the time. Dawkins, and yourself for that matter, could have done a little research and realized this rather quickly. It's not fun by any stretch, but it was par for the course for legal executions.Here's another example, in the Bible it says that Women who wear two different types of fabric are whore and whores should be immediately pelted with rocks until they are dead. Now it is okay to stone non-pure women to death; however, if you do decide to do so, make damn sure that you're only doing it in a figurative sense. As the Bible clearly states `thou shall not kill.'
The 'thou shalt not kill' bit it taken horribly out of context. The entire old testament, if you've bothered to read it, which i doubt, is LOADED with law, all of it varrying to different degrees. The 10 commanments were never meant as universal principles for government, but meant to govern the everyday interactions between people. If you notice, nothing in the list is on a global scale, it's all very one on one, this is intentional, and quite obvious for anybody willing to take the time to look at it.
Yes, it's true, prostitution was punishable by death. So were many things, but prostitutes themselves are agents of death, especially back then, passing diseases around the country, causing plagues and death. While i'm glad that's not the case today, and would hardly encourage the re-instating of such a law, it's understandable at least.
As for that last article you brought up, i'd love to see some references. I know of nowhere that justifies a heliocentric universe, although the catholic church did propogate such belief for some reason, but other then that, i have no idea where you are coming from. I've never seen anything to indicate the world is 'phallus shaped,' or that it's 2,000 years old. Most biblical scholars estimate it at 7-10 thousand, with very good explanations as to why it would appear otherwise. As for sea mosnters, what on earth do you think they would have called dinosaurs had they seen them? and if you doubt they have, i could point you to some very good descriptions of them in the bible, which, at the very least, sound a lot like skeletal remains we've discoverd and named since then.
As for your last torrent of... man i don't know what that was. Pent up rage of some kind? I don't know what has gotten you so set off against Christianity, but you really need to get that worked out. If i weren't able to maintain my cool, this debate could easily disintigrate. I will, however, address a few points you mentioned: First, I see no problem of mentioning religion in the science class as long as science is what's being discussed. I still haven't watched the video as it just finished downloading and i'm going to bed soon, but unless it's some very strange extention of a bible lesson, there's nothing wrong. They could be asking for scientific evidence for the noah's ark story, for example, which i doubt since their professor is not a literalist. Another thing i will mention, is that the problem you keep running into is that you're trying to explain the supernatural by natural means. Noah's ark is a perfect example of this. Modern models of the craft have proven to be remarkably seaworthy. There are ocean floor fossils on mountain tops all over the world, and easly enough water on the planet to completely submerge it (science) but how to fit all those animals inside? and what about dinosaurs? insects? etc. Theories abound. Lizards, like dinosaurs for example, start life very VERY small, and grow to the limits of their environment. The animals could be in hibernation. The insects could easily have been preserved on the ground in sealed 'pockets' or flew, or a thousand of other possibilities. Perhaps dinosaurs weren't preserved at all and this was their method of extinction. This is clearly supernatural. It may not be able to be explained by science just yet, or maybe ever, but that dosn't make it impossible.
You seem to have taken that last section of mine as rather personal. What i had in mind when i wrote it (although you can't be held accountable for that, and i'm not doing so, just offering an explanation) Was the Q & A i saw with Dawkins. He's a master of croud pleasing, and he used it every time he didn't have an out. That's what scared me. That's what i was talking about. Towards the end he had generated an almost mob mentality going. It's genius really, it carried over even to those that watched the video. He's managed to be charming, enraging, and militant all at the same time. I say that makes him brilliant, but it's also scarry. It puts him in the same class of brilliance as Hitler. Able to manipulate huge groups of people against a minority. I doubt he would advocate for the kind of violance Hitler did, but the kind of intolerance and bigotry he advocates is, in some ways, just as scary.
Last edited by Super Goat Weed on Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
Man, you took those italic quotes so out of context I stopped reading.
Just so everyone else has a heads up, they're actually really ripping the piss out of defensive Christians who claim the bible is the world of God, true fact, yet shouldn't be taken literally, by being entirely literal. I found it hilarious. I found most of my "hate" speech hilarious. Clearly, you don't, because the one on the butt end of the joke, doesn't :/
I'll read this a little later and comment then.
Saw your last paragraph though. No pent up rage just an exhausted mind after an hour of writing (in and our of changing music and talking on msn)
Just so everyone else has a heads up, they're actually really ripping the piss out of defensive Christians who claim the bible is the world of God, true fact, yet shouldn't be taken literally, by being entirely literal. I found it hilarious. I found most of my "hate" speech hilarious. Clearly, you don't, because the one on the butt end of the joke, doesn't :/
I'll read this a little later and comment then.
Saw your last paragraph though. No pent up rage just an exhausted mind after an hour of writing (in and our of changing music and talking on msn)
Last edited by Matt on Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
I also didn't write those italics.
Last edited by Matt on Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Super Goat Weed
- Anti-Hero
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That is a review of the book on amazon. Which is why I had a hard time fathoming the true intent of the author, until I got to this bit. Which just gave it away a big joke:AS a life long Christian I am a bit puzzled by all the negative reviews on Amazon calling this book contradictory. As I have read this book many times and practice its teaching on an every day basis, I can tell you there is not a contradictory word in the Bible. Now, the Bible is the word of God and should be read that way. Every letter of every word of every sentence in it should be taken as complete unquestionable fact; however the bible is not meant to be taken literally. If read as a literal piece the Bible would appear down right ridiculous. Now, you might be asking to yourself `how can something be accepted as the truth, but not be taken literally?' Well that's easy. I will give you a few examples.
For instance, in the Bible Jesus teaches brotherly love. In fact, Jesus was quite close to his disciples, especially Judas who was always kissing Jesus on the cheek. Now, love between two men is a great thing, but not in a literal sense, because that is called homosexuality and homosexuality is total gay. As the bible makes quite clear all homosexuals are evil people and should be covered in oil and burned to death.
Here's another example, in the Bible it says that Women who wear two different types of fabric are whore and whores should be immediately pelted with rocks until they are dead. Now it is okay to stone non-pure women to death; however, if you do decide to do so, make damb sure that you're only doing it in a figurative sense. As the Bible clearly states `thou shall not kill.'
As a final example, in the Bible God states that the world `is a two thousand year old stationary dick located at the center of the universe, on the border on which sea-monster patrol.' Now this statement is true; just not in its literal interpretation. If you read between the lines it becomes quite obvious that what God meant to say is that `the world is in fact, a five billion year old basketball shaped rock that, due to a gravitation pull, rotates in a yearly cycle around the sun. There is no center of the universe. There are no sea-monsters.'
I hope by reading this I have clarified things and that you non Christians now have a deeper appreciation for this great masterpiece of factual literature known as the Bible. If I haven't please forgive me. By the way, some of substance in this book is extremely boring; I just bought it for the leather cover and binding.
because that is called homosexuality and homosexuality is total gay. As the bible makes quite clear all homosexuals are evil people and should be covered in oil and burned to death.
Last edited by Matt on Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:33 am, edited 1 time in total.