the evolution thing again

[Super Goat Weed]

i need a favor

i'm quite fluent with several different angles of the traditional creation vs evolution debate, but i need one more thing

basicly, i need you people to come up with a question from an evolutionist would have that a creationist could NOT answer. Also, don't post links reccomending this or that site to me, i've been draging my dick across the internet all day, and i haven't found anything interesting

NO LINKS

just post the question

also, as i general rule, if i can offer a decent response, which i may or may not elect to do just for times sake, i probably won't use this in my project. Also, for at least a couple days, all i want are QUESTIONS. if this turns into a debate after a few days, that's fine, but for now all i want are the questions. I'm taking them with me to a forum (a real one, not an internet one) on friday, and i'd really like to have some good stumpers for these guys.

BTW, i'm not pro-evolution either, i'm just trying to get both sides of the debate, and this is one thing that i see as lacking

remember, QUESTIONS NOW debate later... thanks

[Chewi]

This question isn't mine, maybe I'll think of my own later.

"When god created man, he made him in his own image and made man has free will, to control what he does and doesn't do. But when Eve eats from the tree, God says it was her fate to eat the apple. Fate is sealed, meaning your life is planned before you're born... where was Eve's free will, if God had already predetermined it?"

[Masteroftheweb]

That's not really an evolutionist's question james...


"Why do whales have pelveses and snakes hip bones?"

"If god is the perfect creator, why is the human eye so imperfect"

"Why do we have the reminaites of a tailbone... yet have no tail?"

"Why would a Master Creator give us more teeth than will fit in our jaws?" (wisdom teeth)

"why do we have lower back pain if we were created to stand up straight?"

"Why do men have nipples?"

This one I'm just going to quote, because it's to difficult to form into an easy question.

Things Creationists Hate

Truth

This isn't about the things creationists are just wrong about, like how old the Earth is, but about things that I suspect a good many know are not true, or gross distortions of the truth. The general one is that there is a great debate among scientists about whether species have evolved. A joyous update is that only a few die-hards still believe in the Big Bang. There are plenty of other amusing examples:

human footprints alongside dinosaurs
human artifacts found among dinosaur bones
a geological column that is almost never in the "proper" order described by geologists
proof from all over the world of a worldwide Flood
the "NASA computer" that revealed the "extra day" when the sun stopped to give the Israelites more time to conquer Jericho
the deep hole geologists drilled and then had to fill in hurriedly when they heard the screams from Hell
Darwin's "deathbed recantation" (the "Lady Hope" story)

Nothing seems too silly or too obviously wrong to pass along. (I've even read things by creationists that justify "lying for Jesus" if it helps save a few more souls!)

I could go on, both with the aid of this site and without... but I'm simply too lazy.

[Super Goat Weed]

sorry James, he's right, that's more about the general religion then evolution, but we can get into that another time if you'd like

Will, some of that I can use, some if it is rather easy to counter. But, once again, no debate yet. Some very good questions there, keep 'em coming

[Chewi]

Like I said, it wasn't my question, I asked a friend of mine who I thought might be interested and that was the question he had. I agree, it's not that great.

[Melana]

I'm just interested in seeing what your counters to that are though Ben.

[Mik]

If creationism is true, Where did God come from ?


GOD created Adam. Adam begat Seth. Seth begat Enos. Enos begat Kainân.

who begat God ? who created the creator?


It's one of the best arguement ever used against a evolutionist, where did the gases and matter for the explosion to create their big bang come from ?

they never have a good answer, the one that I enjoy the most is the cycle answer that the universe is a neverending death and rebirth that increases in mass only to explode again. I like this one not because it's fantasical but because it evades the question completely and creations cannot explain the suddden appearance of God.

He is just there .. thats the only answer I ever got.

[Bogey]

Maybe it was late at night and God was getting tired, when he got round to finishing off our eyes. Maybe we were intended to have tails, but God passed out before adding it.

Sounds to me like he was running on a tight deadline.

[kaos]

so like he thought monkeys were so much fun he tried to make them even better.

but yeah he kinda messed that one up.

[mog]

Creationism is based on the idea that the world is too complex to be created naturally.

A question to this would be, "Why do organisms have so many common traits in common that can be logically explained as having a common ancestor between them?"

[Super Goat Weed]

Sorry it took so long. After i finished my project, i sort of needed a break from this for a while. Hurts the brain

anyway, here we go:

"Why do whales have pelveses and snakes hip bones?" Why not? i don't see the relevence here. I've heard it argued that this is evidence of evolution, but really, it just makes it harder to explain. True, the whale is a mammal, but the snake is a reptile. In fact, there are a lot of creatures that have hip bones that don't follow the evolutionary 'order' of things, they seem to appear and dissapear from the evolutionary chain at random. As far as the relevence, I'll explain it this way. If i were a contractor hired to build a house, would i re-invent the hinge each time i started a different building? Probably not, the type of hinge i used on the bathroom door in the ranch house i built a month ago would just as easily work on the garage door of the new GM building i was currently contracted to construct. It would appear slightly different (larger, more sturdy, probably with more links) but in the end, it's the same part doing a similar function. All this really says is that the engineer of life as we know it didn't create new parts for every animal, he simply modified what he was already working with.

"If god is the perfect creator, why is the human eye so imperfect" It was created perfect, but over time defects appeared and were passed down. Decent evidence against evolution actually, as our eyes should be 'improving' over time, not getting worse, according to the theory.

"Why do we have the reminaites of a tailbone... yet have no tail?" I think we use our talibone to aid in our sense of balence. So it appears tail-ish and fuctions much like a tail would in that reguard and for that purpose.

"Why would a Master Creator give us more teeth than will fit in our jaws?" (wisdom teeth) My wisdom teeth fit in just fine, i'd chalk that one up to defects that appear over time, just like the eye. In fact, in most cases, teeth can be properly adjusted to their proper position and leave plenty of room for wisdom teeth. And i know from experience that they work just fine.

"why do we have lower back pain if we were created to stand up straight?" Someone missed the health teacher's lecture about bad posture. A better question would be if we evolved from apes, why is having a hunched over posture so bad for our backs?

"Why do men have nipples?" After conception, both men and women sexless asside from their repective cromosones. Chemical changes in the womb determine a child's apparent sex. For this reason, both of the sexes have nipples, but they only turn into breasts on females. I don't quite understand the relevence to this one either.

"Why do organisms have so many common traits in common that can be logically explained as having a common ancestor between them?" Within a common species, i can see your point. To this end, many creationists would say that micro-evolution may have take place, but more likely, these genes were included in a 'master pair' of creatures. For example, you start with 2 or 3 different kinds of cats, and over time and breeding, certian genetic traits appear. longer hair, bigger teeth, etc, that would make a cat better suited to different tasks then it's distant relatives. Now a species-to-species jump is MUCH harder to explain from an evolutionist perspective. Theories abound, but they lack the so called 'missing links' that go between the speices of animals.

[kaos]

more teeth than fit?

im a special case. I have everysingle one. and my wisdom teeth never bothered me so never had to be taken out. hell i dodnt even know they were there till the dentist told me.

im the next stage baby!

[Mik]

"If god is the perfect creator, why is the human eye so imperfect" It was created perfect, but over time defects appeared and were passed down. Decent evidence against evolution actually, as our eyes should be 'improving' over time, not getting worse, according to the theory.

You assume evoultion only travels upward that isn't so, Humans also buck the Darwin survival of the fittest trend your working from. In the wild having poor eyesight would hamper the ability to gather and hunt therefore reducing the likely hood of mating, thus the defective gene isn't continued in future generations directly.

Since humans mate for many differing reason that the more simple and animalistic approach, like love, sport, entertainment and recreation the SOTF argument doesn' work and many defective genes are past on. The fact that it anything gets better or worse actually supports evoultion as if Creationism where true all would remain stagant.

[Bogey]

Yeah, how else would James exist if not?

[Super Goat Weed]

You assume evoultion only travels upward that isn't so, Humans also buck the Darwin survival of the fittest trend your working from. In the wild having poor eyesight would hamper the ability to gather and hunt therefore reducing the likely hood of mating, thus the defective gene isn't continued in future generations directly.

Since humans mate for many differing reason that the more simple and animalistic approach, like love, sport, entertainment and recreation the SOTF argument doesn' work and many defective genes are past on. The fact that it anything gets better or worse actually supports evoultion as if Creationism where true all would remain stagant.

not at all, remember the whole 'man has fallen' thing? basicly, according to the Genisis account, because of man's sin, he is now in a constant state of deterioration. The eye is just one example of this in action.

This also supports the creation account in the fact that humans are the only ones who 'factor in' other things, basicly using their free will over their basic animal instinct. Animals always persue the strongest in the group, while humans can choose their mates based on whatever appeals to them. Quite a jump from our so called 'closest relatives' who take no pleasure in sex, and decide on mating only on the basis of being in heat and finding the strongest male.