the evolution thing again
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Super Goat Weed
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Mik
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How can I not ?
A science textbook is documenting facts as they are displayed through observation or experimentation.
The Bible (or christian patriot missile) is a text book documenting facts as they are displayed by witnesses or faith.
I was taught both Science and religion hand in hand, we had Prayers and had to sing hymns every morning in assembly, well before evolution was ever brought up in secondary school and even then I had Religious education classes until I was 14 when it stopped being a complusory class.
A science textbook is documenting facts as they are displayed through observation or experimentation.
The Bible (or christian patriot missile) is a text book documenting facts as they are displayed by witnesses or faith.
I was taught both Science and religion hand in hand, we had Prayers and had to sing hymns every morning in assembly, well before evolution was ever brought up in secondary school and even then I had Religious education classes until I was 14 when it stopped being a complusory class.
Last edited by Mik on Fri Feb 23, 2007 2:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Exactly the same here but mine was compulsory until 16. The "but it isn't taught in public schools" argument doesn't really sit with someone who went to a faith school from the age of 4 till 18. Consequently I'm not sure I agree with faith schools in principle but I won't slam them completely because at least mine taught both sides of the story. The strange thing is that they were both taught as conflicting fact. At the time, I didn't question it much. I imagine that the science teachers and religion teachers just agree to disagree about it. I do recall one of my most religious teachers admitting that she didn't believe in the story of Noah's ark though.
Last edited by Chewi on Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Mik
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My Physics teacher was like really christian and we where going over the big bang theory in class and some brough up (might have been me .. I'm a dick like that) that how could she believe in God and the big bang at the same.
Her answer was
'Who do think caused the big bang?'
'you think God was a Pyromanic ?'
needless to say we didn't get on well.
I could apply their crazy logic to everything, mathematics is not a word you'll find in the bible so it can't possibly have exsisted prior to the bible therefore it's not true. In fact the only maths like story I can remember is the Parabel of the chick losing a gold coin and I think the moral of the story was meant to be don't sweat the small shit be thankfull for what you've got.
Therefore on my Maths paper;
Sally has 50 Gold coins, she loses 2, how many gold coins does she have left ?
Answer: Sally should thank God for the gold still has and forget about the other coins, she'll be happier that way.
Her answer was
'Who do think caused the big bang?'
'you think God was a Pyromanic ?'
needless to say we didn't get on well.
I could apply their crazy logic to everything, mathematics is not a word you'll find in the bible so it can't possibly have exsisted prior to the bible therefore it's not true. In fact the only maths like story I can remember is the Parabel of the chick losing a gold coin and I think the moral of the story was meant to be don't sweat the small shit be thankfull for what you've got.
Therefore on my Maths paper;
Sally has 50 Gold coins, she loses 2, how many gold coins does she have left ?
Answer: Sally should thank God for the gold still has and forget about the other coins, she'll be happier that way.
Last edited by Mik on Fri Feb 23, 2007 4:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I only posted a funny video, and frankly Ben you make me want to post a lot more videos. You're such an anal prick. You accuse other's of not seeing things from your side but you do exactly that. All I fucking did was comment on how some idiot was brainwashing children, it's not fair on fragile minds like that. And no, normal scientists/teachers don't force their own theories on people as fact. It's not my fault you only know shitty teachers, maybe that's how you turned out the way you did. Now if you have a funny video of a scientist forcing his own personal views on young children and telling them they'll suffer eternal torture if they don't, I'd love to see it, and I'd call them a prick just as equally.
Now let's all go live in Ben world where everything has to have a disclaimer incase it's not real, and Jesus gives out presents to all the wonderful children that believe in him (But of course he wouldn't need a disclaimer because he is real).
Now let's all go live in Ben world where everything has to have a disclaimer incase it's not real, and Jesus gives out presents to all the wonderful children that believe in him (But of course he wouldn't need a disclaimer because he is real).
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Super Goat Weed
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Nice way to start showing us what a caring and understanding individual you are.
Again, I'd probably have a lot more consideration for your 'sense of humor' as you call it, if you showed one ounce of interest in the other sides agenda rather then trying to make everybody who doesn't believe exactly the way you do look like jerks who brainwash children.
Then again, you can't even explain yourself without flipping out, accusing, insulting, generalizing etc, so maybe I'm asking too much.
(BTW, I never saw him threaten the children with 'eternal torture' if they didn't believe exactly what he did. If you were a little more open minded, you'd research this properly and find there are actually quite a few Christians out there that have different views on the origins of the world.)
Mik, you've got that parable all wrong. In the story, the widow searched and searched until she found the coin. The illustration was meant to be an example of how God cares and searches for all of us as if we were his last cent.
But i digress.
You make it sound like I'm against the teaching of evolution in school at all. I'm really not. I think you'd be doing a child a horrible disservice by not educating them in the current theories science has. Atomic structure in general is still theory because nobody knows exactly how atomic structures work. Most teachers make that quite clear, then go on to require the student to learn the periodic table of the element, etc.
Could that be outdated eventually? sure. Again this was made quite clear by my teacher at the time, and over the course of my studies, the theory DID actually change. I was just reading an interesting article the other day that showed that things science has long held as 'constants' might not always have been as constant as they think. Things like the speed of light in a vacuum and the basic principle of Alpha. (which may be relative to this discussion seeing as how we guess the age of the universe by holding such things as constants, but I'm not willing to go out on that limb until i see more about it.)
Anyway, Mik, you're really twisting things here. Perhaps unintentionally, but still. You're comparing something that's not at all in contradiction with scripture with something that a lot of people feel might be just that. The principles of math, which is, after all, completely theory, does not try to usurp the teaching of the Bible. Evolution as the sole reason for man's existence does.
James, Mik, chances are, your parents both put you in those schools because they thought you were being taught the truth. Obviously you weren't brainwashed because you eventually grew up and decided you didn't agree. Would i support that sticker on textbooks containing instruction on evolution? defiantly. Would i encourage people to read the bible critically and evaluate it using the same criteria and the same disclaimer? absolutely. That's what I did myself. I'd be rather deceptive to not inform you that my parents were Christians, but in the course of my life i've experienced at least 3 different perspectives on the interpretation of the Bible, and in the end doubted it altogether. However, after evaluating it for myself, looking into the evidence, talking to people who believe different things, I came to my own conclusion: that it is true. I encourage people to speculate, question, interrogate, even doubt, but that goes hand in hand with looking at things objectively and hearing both sides of the argument from INTELLIGENT people who know what they are talking about. So in the end would i be opposed to that sticker being put on the Bible if it's being used as a textbook? No, because I believe that, if looked at objectively, the truth is more then able to defend itself.
Again, I'd probably have a lot more consideration for your 'sense of humor' as you call it, if you showed one ounce of interest in the other sides agenda rather then trying to make everybody who doesn't believe exactly the way you do look like jerks who brainwash children.
Then again, you can't even explain yourself without flipping out, accusing, insulting, generalizing etc, so maybe I'm asking too much.
(BTW, I never saw him threaten the children with 'eternal torture' if they didn't believe exactly what he did. If you were a little more open minded, you'd research this properly and find there are actually quite a few Christians out there that have different views on the origins of the world.)
Mik, you've got that parable all wrong. In the story, the widow searched and searched until she found the coin. The illustration was meant to be an example of how God cares and searches for all of us as if we were his last cent.
But i digress.
You make it sound like I'm against the teaching of evolution in school at all. I'm really not. I think you'd be doing a child a horrible disservice by not educating them in the current theories science has. Atomic structure in general is still theory because nobody knows exactly how atomic structures work. Most teachers make that quite clear, then go on to require the student to learn the periodic table of the element, etc.
Could that be outdated eventually? sure. Again this was made quite clear by my teacher at the time, and over the course of my studies, the theory DID actually change. I was just reading an interesting article the other day that showed that things science has long held as 'constants' might not always have been as constant as they think. Things like the speed of light in a vacuum and the basic principle of Alpha. (which may be relative to this discussion seeing as how we guess the age of the universe by holding such things as constants, but I'm not willing to go out on that limb until i see more about it.)
Anyway, Mik, you're really twisting things here. Perhaps unintentionally, but still. You're comparing something that's not at all in contradiction with scripture with something that a lot of people feel might be just that. The principles of math, which is, after all, completely theory, does not try to usurp the teaching of the Bible. Evolution as the sole reason for man's existence does.
James, Mik, chances are, your parents both put you in those schools because they thought you were being taught the truth. Obviously you weren't brainwashed because you eventually grew up and decided you didn't agree. Would i support that sticker on textbooks containing instruction on evolution? defiantly. Would i encourage people to read the bible critically and evaluate it using the same criteria and the same disclaimer? absolutely. That's what I did myself. I'd be rather deceptive to not inform you that my parents were Christians, but in the course of my life i've experienced at least 3 different perspectives on the interpretation of the Bible, and in the end doubted it altogether. However, after evaluating it for myself, looking into the evidence, talking to people who believe different things, I came to my own conclusion: that it is true. I encourage people to speculate, question, interrogate, even doubt, but that goes hand in hand with looking at things objectively and hearing both sides of the argument from INTELLIGENT people who know what they are talking about. So in the end would i be opposed to that sticker being put on the Bible if it's being used as a textbook? No, because I believe that, if looked at objectively, the truth is more then able to defend itself.
Last edited by Super Goat Weed on Fri Feb 23, 2007 11:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'm telling you now: I find everything Ben is saying quite frightening :blink:
The video is equally as bad.
I could agree to being far out agnostic and that god, or what we would percieve as a god could've caused the big bang. But the chance of something talking to us like that is stupid.
http://exchristian.net/2/2007/02/jesus-tree.html
Should I "respect" them, or laugh?
The video is equally as bad.
I could agree to being far out agnostic and that god, or what we would percieve as a god could've caused the big bang. But the chance of something talking to us like that is stupid.
http://exchristian.net/2/2007/02/jesus-tree.html
Should I "respect" them, or laugh?
Last edited by Matt on Sat Feb 24, 2007 3:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
Yes, I showed I cared about those children. I couldn't give a fuck about you though.Super Goat Weed wrote:Nice way to start showing us what a caring and understanding individual you are.
Everybody? Where did I say everybody? Stop taking everything I say out of context, it's getting extremely pathetic and I'm sure other people are getting tired of it too. I said about that retard in the video. Not everybody. Will you learn to fucking read properly.Super Goat Weed wrote:Again, I'd probably have a lot more consideration for your 'sense of humor' as you call it, if you showed one ounce of interest in the other sides agenda rather then trying to make everybody who doesn't believe exactly the way you do look like jerks who brainwash children.
Where did I generalize? I'm flipping out because I'm getting so tired of your childlike behaviour on this subject. Will you please listen to other people. At the moment all your posts are written as if you're ignoring the fundemental views people are placing before you. Maybe I'm asking too much here.Super Goat Weed wrote:Then again, you can't even explain yourself without flipping out, accusing, insulting, generalizing etc, so maybe I'm asking too much.
I knew you'd post this. I'll ignore that last part about "other christians" because I'm not looking at other christians. I know there are a huge amount of christians in the world who are reasonable and do not enforce their view on others, but for some reason you want to keep twisting that I see them all as evil. But about not seeing him tell them about hell and eternal torture, it's very convenient for you to paint a picture of the video how they have edited out everying that you think they have. But ofcourse if I speculate on what else he may have said I'm obviously wrong.Super Goat Weed wrote:(BTW, I never saw him threaten the children with 'eternal torture' if they didn't believe exactly what he did. If you were a little more open minded, you'd research this properly and find there are actually quite a few Christians out there that have different views on the origins of the world.)
The rest of the post wasn't exactly directed at me. But I'll add I was raised in a similar school to Mik and Chewi. Our parents put us their because it was the local school and pretty much all schools were like that.
Now if you would like to actually address some of what I posted previously in this topic I would greatly appreciate it. Or are you just going to try and twist everything again and ignore the specifics of my typings?
It's the same as people finding rudely formed vegetables. But the people who find those can appreciate how random it is, and their penis shaped turnip was not shaped that way by a great penis in the sky.Chewi wrote:I can clearly see what they're talking about but, you know, stuff just looks like stuff sometimes. You can even find Jesus in cheese toasties these days. No really.
EDIT: Why does that jesus tree have a vagina?
Last edited by Bogey on Sat Feb 24, 2007 12:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Super Goat Weed
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Again, your stellar attitude shines through.
If you'd read what i posted, you'd know that i've seen this guy in person, so I'm more then qualified to comment on what was conveniently edited out.
As far as your points, I'd be more then willing to comment on any i see, but frankly i see none. Perhaps your intelligent debate is buried under too much hate, sarcasm, and ignorance for me to see. Perhaps you should try rephrasing it?
If you'd like, replace 'everybody' with 'people who don't belive in evolutionary origins of life' my point still stands.
When did you generalize? when you posted a video aimed at discrediting what I'm saying based on nothing more then an obviously biased reporter's view.
Speaking of putting words in people's mouths and taking things out of context, when did I ever say someone was going to hell because they believed in evolution?
Now it's my turn:
What right do you have to insult what others believe the way you do? I think you've seen way too much of Dawkins, because you sound just as bitter and angry as he does. You're ruining a perfectly good topic with childish insults and ignorant behavior. Why?
Matt, frankly, you frighten me as well. I don't know what's up with that Jesus tree thing, and i also don't see what relevance it has to this topic, other then you're obviously trying to stir stuff up more. How mature.
If you'd read what i posted, you'd know that i've seen this guy in person, so I'm more then qualified to comment on what was conveniently edited out.
As far as your points, I'd be more then willing to comment on any i see, but frankly i see none. Perhaps your intelligent debate is buried under too much hate, sarcasm, and ignorance for me to see. Perhaps you should try rephrasing it?
If you'd like, replace 'everybody' with 'people who don't belive in evolutionary origins of life' my point still stands.
When did you generalize? when you posted a video aimed at discrediting what I'm saying based on nothing more then an obviously biased reporter's view.
Speaking of putting words in people's mouths and taking things out of context, when did I ever say someone was going to hell because they believed in evolution?
Now it's my turn:
What right do you have to insult what others believe the way you do? I think you've seen way too much of Dawkins, because you sound just as bitter and angry as he does. You're ruining a perfectly good topic with childish insults and ignorant behavior. Why?
Matt, frankly, you frighten me as well. I don't know what's up with that Jesus tree thing, and i also don't see what relevance it has to this topic, other then you're obviously trying to stir stuff up more. How mature.
Last edited by Super Goat Weed on Sat Feb 24, 2007 1:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I give up, I really do. I still can't believe you're trying to turn all of this into me hating all christians and now aparantly somewhere I said that you said people go to hell if they don't believe in evolution. I honestly do not know where you are finding these things, but your arse is my best guess.
I actually stuck up for you when this all broke about before and it appeared as your character was being assassinated. What an idiot I feel now. The lies you continue to post about me frankly disgust me.
Really, go fuck yourself. And for anyone else, if you insist on sitting on the bench you can fuck yourselves too. I know society has taught us to be tolerant of idiots like this, because it's not their fault they're mentally handicapped(No Ben, I'm not talking about christians). But I've really had enough of it.
I actually stuck up for you when this all broke about before and it appeared as your character was being assassinated. What an idiot I feel now. The lies you continue to post about me frankly disgust me.
Really, go fuck yourself. And for anyone else, if you insist on sitting on the bench you can fuck yourselves too. I know society has taught us to be tolerant of idiots like this, because it's not their fault they're mentally handicapped(No Ben, I'm not talking about christians). But I've really had enough of it.
You're rabbiting on about how everyone should respect what other people believe in. Should I respect that these people think a tree is jesus? No, I bloody well shouldn't. The idea is retarded.Super Goat Weed wrote: Matt, frankly, you frighten me as well. I don't know what's up with that Jesus tree thing, and i also don't see what relevance it has to this topic, other then you're obviously trying to stir stuff up more. How mature.
Jesus didn't die on the cross. Jesus didn't assend to heaven. He fucked off to India and lived a long life to the ripe old age of 80 under the name Issa. He was a devout Jew who also understood the teachings of Budda.
EDIT:
He was not the son of god.
Last edited by Matt on Sat Feb 24, 2007 3:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.