the evolution thing again

[Mik]

Dogs and Wolves aren't the same however they can breed with no dramatic side effects

[Super Goat Weed]

i'm not saying that you can't have different types of elephants, cats, etc that breed in or out certian characteristics, what i'm saying it the idea that new genes are introduced thereby changing the species of the animal is a stretch at best. All those animals you've mentioned are formed using existing DNA, it's simply being breeding desirable traits out or in as we desire. We're not creating anything 'new' but modifying something that already exists. You can change a dog around all you want, but there's certian roadblocks that are natrually occuring that prevent breeding to a certain extent. We call them different species. Evolution, as you're describing it, definatly occurs, but it dosn't account for new genetic material, nor could it be held responsible for the existance of all life as it is today.

[kaos]

I think theirs some confusion with the word "new"

I dont think new genes are introduced in the process.

I think that its more of a modification on existing ones.

now the proces is going to be slow.
but once you mod somthing enuff their comes a pont where its no longer the same thing.

that said. I dunno what exactly makes a cat a cat nor do i know what exactly makes a dog a dog. but logiclly thinking you have to assume that at some point in history there was probably a source animal that was both so to speak.

EDIT Bingo!

Miacis

"The dog traces its ancestry back to a five-toed, weasellike animal called Miacis, which lived in the Eocene epoch about 40 million years ago. This animal was the forebear of the cat, raccoon, bear, hyena, and civet, as well as of the wolf, fox, jackal, and dog.Miacis."

thats all I was trying to say right there.

[Masteroftheweb]

http://www.local6.com/news/9290536/detail.html

Birth defect?

or Evolution...

dun dun DUN!

[Mik]

it you specailise enough and breed out a characteristic enough then you become something else.

If you modify a spoon enough you can make a fork.

[Masteroftheweb]

And if you breed a spoon and a fork... you get the sterial offspring, the spork

[Super Goat Weed]

it you specailise enough and breed out a characteristic enough then you become something else.

If you modify a spoon enough you can make a fork.

but it's still silverware, try making a fork into a blender, that's what evloution tries to do.

[kaos]

no it doesnt.

[Bogey]

There's a bit of confusion here on what evolutionary genes are. It's been a long time since my biology A-levels so a lot of the words I can't really remember. But basically these genes are more or less a combination of stuff (yeah real articulate I know). Think of a lego kit you can make a helicopter out of, and in a different order you can make a car or something. That's why all life on earth has similarities running through it, like the lego trademark.

When you talk about "adding" new genes, they don't come from nowhere. The essential building blocks for the new gene are already there.

I hope someone has the knowledge to clarify what I'm saying, I tried looking it up but I couldn't find exactly what I was looking for. I've always been shit with names.

BTW, you couldn't make a blender out of a fork. They both evolved from the bottlecap, and stemmed off into different branches.

[Masteroftheweb]

Genes are made of proteins. Proteins are made up of amino acids. I beleive amino acids are base as you're going to get.

These amino acids can create any number of proteins, which can create any number of genes... superior or dormant, which will alter DNA strands... which will alter creatures.

They aren't called "building blocks of life" because they follow a specific pattern.


Also... leading informations indicates that the bottle cap actually came from the alluminum can, and the the fork and blender orginated from the trash can. There was a mix up at an excivation site that screwed up the info for the last 10 years.

[Bogey]

I think it was a bit more specific than just proteins and amino acids what I was thinking of, but yeah atleast I know you get the point. It's been such a long time since I did this in biology and I quit because I was so bored of it, even though my grades were pretty good. I don't think I'll be much use to this thread.

Something we learned about in Religious Education was finding a balance between science and religion. Like what actually made that first single celled organism come to life? And what caused the Big Bang, or caused the cause of the Big Bang, or even the cause of the cause of the cause of the cause of the Big Bang. Once again I'm probably touching on stuff you guys know but I'm shitty with the names and specifics.

I'd be a fountain of knowledge if the universe was made out of lego.

[kaos]

http://reba.bluedream.com/strange/images/legojesus.jpg

[Masteroftheweb]

While blance between science and religion is possable in some beleifs... Christainity is far to close minded, it teaches that god is supreme and don't question it...

and even the higher churches still don't like to answer certain questions... and they tend to be pretty open minded about the bible being all medifore and shit

[Super Goat Weed]

my arguments have nothing to do with religion if that's where you're going with this, they have to do with scientific, logical fact. you can shake a box of legos all you want, the chances of getting a exact reproduction of the empire state building to scale are... well.. impossible. Evolution says that given enough time that it is possible, and it's far more complex then just shuffeling legos anyway.

[Bogey]

who said anything about shuffeling and things being random? These are extremely slow and gradual processes.